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Old 14th July 2004, 09:21 PM   #11
Lynn Terry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copywriter
Amen! This has been something I've been working with a LOT of clients on lately. The understanding that balance is not only extremely important, but downright vital to the success of any SEO campaign. You can't focus 100% on the engines or your sales will suffer. You also can't focus 100% on your sales or your positioning will suffer. Balance... balance... balance.
Just wanted to pipe in and say: Hello, Karon! It's a pleasure to find you here. I was just listening in to your interview with Mark U I look forward to getting to know you and interacting with you here at the forum!


This has been a terrific thread so far... I'm going to enjoy this category

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Old 15th July 2004, 10:53 AM   #12
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<<Has he told you whta he expects the site to do for him? His aspirations for the site? try to drag him into collective reasoning rather than agreement of your proposals.

You need him to
1) agree it is not doing what he wants it to do
2) agree what it is that he wants it to do.

From that point you can lay a ath collectively piece by piece, element by element until the old site is completely blown away.

it is not going to be easy, but I can see no other way. You need to a psycologist in this scenario I think, you have to try to get him to believe that everything that has been agreed is his doing.>>

Good points, all. But sometimes nothing works because the ego-problem is too entrenched. That was the case here. I reported back to the Board that I could not take on the job. It was useless for me to try to change the website when--in spite of his protestations to the contrary--the CEO did not really want his baby ruffled.

The only possible way to get out of this trap is to never let the CEO get to the point of defending his baby. Then, the step-by-step method quoted above has a chance to work. But once he has his feathers up--nothing works but strategic retreat.

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Old 15th July 2004, 03:51 PM   #13
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Hi everybody,

I was just wondering if any of you caught what Jill Whalen had to say in her newsletter (High Rankings Advisor - Issue No. 105). She mentions developing SEO "standards", which there clearly aren't any, yet.

I don't know if I've ever seen Jill so fired up. Her mention of ethics and good business practice was the foundation of a brutal pounding to those scamming, spamming SEOs.

"Any talk of having a set of standards or a code of ethics always gets shot down by people who have no problems spamming the search engines on their clients' behalf. There are too many SEOs who believe it is their job to get high rankings at all costs, without regard to what the search engines have to say about it. They say that they are paid to do a job for their client (get high rankings) and it makes no difference what methods they use to get them."
- Jill Whalen

I believe in developing these standards. The SEO industry could use a code of ethics to clear its name. After that, we'll be seeing a lot less of these spamming SEO firms. Good riddance!


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Old 15th July 2004, 06:56 PM   #14
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Yes I did and there is a pretty good thread going over at Search Engine Watch related to this in which Jill makes some excellent posts.

I think we not only need a set of standards but an organization that will help to educate the public about the scams and spam that can occur in our industry, something like the BBB which promotes ethical business practices and allows membership for those wishing to comply with those standards as well as mediate when a consumer feels those standards have been violated. In addition the organization can provide reports on companies that have received complaints, in the same way the BB does now. All in all, it could become a place where consumers can go to learn more about companies and acceptable SEM methods before they hire.

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Old 16th July 2004, 08:25 AM   #15
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BTW, David, for completeness I might add that there is also a minority view in the Search Engine Watch that suggests a set of standards is not the answer. Well, actually, ... it's mostly me.

I believe it will be an enormous amount of effort and in the end will not work. My view is that the only definition of Spam that counts is that determined by the current practices of the Search Engines. So I propose a much simpler solution where the Search Engines "out" the bad actors by informing the website owners whose web pages have been de-indexed. I first mentioned this in a Cre8asite Forums discussion triggered by the Seth Godin article that seems to have precipitated all this anguish.

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Old 21st July 2004, 04:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy
it is not going to be easy, but I can see no other way. You need to a psycologist in this scenario I think, you have to try to get him to believe that everything that has been agreed is his doing.
It's true, that would be the only way to teach that old dog new tricks--and believe me I tried those negotiating tactics--but life is too short. As our third fruitless meeting was winding down it suddenly hit me: I am a positioning specialist, not a psychologist! Everything we had agreed to at the past meeting, he was taking back at this one, and we were now back to ground zero with his initial question: "What's wrong with the site anyway?"

I got up, looked him in his beady eyes, and said: "Nothing that doesn't reflect this company's position perfectly." And walked out.

It felt good (but it didn't pay good).

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Old 21st July 2004, 08:36 PM   #17
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You did right. If it dont feel right, don't do it!

On to the next client

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Old 4th August 2004, 05:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wallace
I think we not only need a set of standards but an organization that will help to educate the public about the scams and spam that can occur in our industry, something like the BBB which promotes ethical business practices and allows membership for those wishing to comply with those standards as well as mediate when a consumer feels those standards have been violated. In addition the organization can provide reports on companies that have received complaints, in the same way the BB does now. All in all, it could become a place where consumers can go to learn more about companies and acceptable SEM methods before they hire.
I totally agree with you David. I think this would be a great way to go to step forward and create an objective organization that would benefit clients, air their complaints and also provide a place to list companies that do comply with standards.

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Old 4th August 2004, 07:35 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BWelford
I believe it will be an enormous amount of effort and in the end will not work.
Anything good is worth the effort...yaddayah.

How about an independent, community-based solution rather than a centralized one? For example, some group of orgs (SEG included?) might spearhead a public participation program where a "checklist" or set of recommendations could be put together for potential users of SEO services. After a (lengthy) period of gathering input, opinions, best practices, etc., the orgs could publish their compiled findings as a tool for those in the market for SEO services.

The structure of the "checklist" might include both "moral" and "amoral" guidelines which fit into current SE regulations. "Amoral" SEO providers could enjoy the fact that their approaches have been codified, and "moral" SEO providers could languish in their humanistic superiority. Both groups would then be identified for the benefit of the purchaser, and whichever way the purchaser wished to go ("proper" or "at all costs"), they would be able to discern what they might expect to experience.

Kinda like the BBB, but I'm (superficially) envisioning an evolving set of guidelines in an evolving arena, rather than a clearing house with accreditation and such.

Am I rambling?

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Old 23rd September 2012, 12:11 AM   #20
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Old info, but it work!

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