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Old 15th August 2007, 04:23 PM   #11
mktgbiz
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Hello Jenn! Nice to see you joining the banter! Dig that!

Well……I still gotta stick with my guns. Looking at the examples you listed:
Ebay
Yahoo
Aol
YouTube
Expedia
etc etc…

..they all had one thing going for them in my opinion. They were FIRST in some category or they created a category. Positioning is key in these cases. And this is pointed out in the book – Positioning, The Battle for Your Mind by Al Ries and Jack Trout.

If one can position himself or herself as the first in a category, or a created category, the brand almost becomes the category.

On the other hand, looking at the average Joe Blough who wants to sit down and brand his real estate business or plumbing business or ebook I think branding can be frustrating. How do they make themselves unique? How can they be different? How can they be “catchy?” It’s difficult.

As a matter of fact I just got off the phone with a realtor today who said he wanted to have a catchy slogan so people could remember him. I said that takes some creativity and he replied that he knew that because he had spent endless hours over the past several months trying to figure out his “catchy” phrase or “brand identity” and had come up with nothing.

The brands I am aware of I have been exposed to over and over and over.

Now, if your domain name is keyword rich there’s not doubt it’ll help you rank faster….almost accidentally. It’s worked for me. People in my industry are blown away by how in less than 18 months I rank higher than all of the other bazillion promo items companies because I own a domain name that people search for on a daily basis.

Granted, only a very, very small handful of people search for the javelin pen, but when they do…..I get 100% of them to visit my site.

So, if someone searches for “cheap india travel” (and they more than likely will search for that for the next bazillions years) and cheapindiatravel.com is one of the first 5 results provided I think “most” people will click on that because IT MAKES SENSE - - - - it’s what they searched for.

Now if in the same search the #1 result is ugboowatravelini.com I don’t think people are going to avoid it either.


And I’ve never heard of woot.com and boingboing.com……..and if they came up in a result somehow, I’d be kinda hesitant to click on them for the simple reason………I’ve never heard of them. That goes back to “positioning” as well.


I think this topic should have it’s own category!! It's own "brand" if you will.........


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Old 15th August 2007, 04:30 PM   #12
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I'm going off on a different tangent here.

Just mentioning a possible domain name "in public", such as a forum, will often result in someone buying it before you do. They then want "top dollar" for what you could have bought for $ 9.00.

Worst place to check for possible domains is on the domain sellers sites. It seems there are leaks. Many times people have told about checking a name that hasn't been taken in 20 years on GoDaddy, finding it available, then going back the next day and find it taken.

If you are going to investigate domains, do it in private and go directly to whois, avoiding GoDaddy et al.

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Old 15th August 2007, 04:48 PM   #13
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I agree with Pete. Going to domain sellers is a bad idea.

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Old 15th August 2007, 06:47 PM   #14
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Jen, I think what you are talking about here are sites with amazing content.

Each one of these was able to beat out the competition because they were the best in the business. (which I suppose is the real key).

They didn't become household names until they had a large marketing budget and were able to advertise on a larger scale. Mainly through PR. I know PR doesn't need to cost much (if you are doing it yourself) but the marketing team you hire definitely can.

You might say that your own site 'the lactivist' didn't have a big budget. But imagine how much it may have cost to hire some like yourself to work on the PR and SEO for an entire month to start getting your name out there.

There are still plenty of people outside the tech community who have never heard of any of name like, yahoo, google and ebay (believe it or not).

But like I said before, for longevity I'd certainly pick a name that is unique that people will be able to remember.

The keyword stuffed name will only help you in the short term by making it easier to get keywords into your content.

The person who gets the most backlinks is still going to rule the search engines so the keywords don't really apply after this point.

At the same time. If you could get something like travelagencyindex.com I don't see why you can't make that in to a household name if you build the business right.

It's just a name. A rose by any other name… you get the idea.

I do have one more thing to say before I close out.

This crazy web 2.0 way of naming companies does my head in. Flickr.com for instance. It's a great service. millions of people are using it (because t's a great service). But I tell you what. Flicker.com is getting a hell of a lot of free publicity off it's back without having to do a thing.

They are actually selling the domain. But I believe they will get a decent price just based f the success of Flickr.

Good discussion though.

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Old 16th August 2007, 04:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Each one of these was able to beat out the competition because they were the best in the business. (which I suppose is the real key).
Ahh...THERE we go.

Look folks, you can look for something that will help you succeed quickly or you can look for something that will flat out help you succeed.

You can launch an amazingly successful business with an idiot made up name (unless it's flooz, then you'll probably fail...) or you can launch an amazingly success business with a keyword filled name.

This isn't a new tactic.

For years, people named their companies A1Plumbing so they would show at the top of the Yellow Page listings. Is this idea really that much different?

I'm not arguing that using a keyword filled URL may help you rank more quickly. I'm simply trying to point out that if you are planning your business around the traffic you'll get from a search engine, you may need to rethink your marketing strategy. Google/Yahoo/MSN are NOT the be-all-end-all definer of success.

They help, but they only do a portion. It's easy to say that companies like ebay, Expedia, Google and Microsoft all had the budget to brand themselves with, but guess what? They all started off as a simple business idea in someone's brain and I know at least two of them started off in someone's garage.

Would Google have become as big a success if they'd called themselves "Search for it?" Probably, but Google sure sounds a lot catchier.

Would you buy a laptop preloaded with Operating System Inc's Vista? Perhaps...but Microsoft sounds professional.

I'm just trying to imagine a world where EVERY business name simply defined what the company did.

I could go buy breakfast at "The Donut Shop" before filling my car up at "The Gas Station" and picking up a "Chocolate Snack Cake" to munch down while I drove my kids to "The Movie Theatre." Then I could stop by "The Department Store" to buy a pair of "Tennis Shoes" that I'd wear the next time I wanted to ride my "Mountain Bike" while on a vacation I booked through "Biking Trips Travel Agency."

Variety is the spice of life...and spices? They take work to refine. Gotta be patient while they dry and their full flavor comes out.

Ok, ok, I'll retreat back into my corner now.

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Old 17th August 2007, 08:06 AM   #16
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Ok........come back out from your corner Jenn. LOL. Nice reply.

My next question is, how does Joe Blough create that catchy name? How does he/she create that cool, memorable, unique "brand name" that will live on for decades?

How do they do that when their business is selling airline tickets? Fixing people's toilets? Their business isn't creativity.

And I can speak from bioth sides of the table here. I do have a site that is about the "brand" - FishForFREE.com and I have TheJavelinPen.com. I will tell you this, the latter of the 2 has had faster success than the other.

How'd I come up with the FFF site? Lightning bolt idea from GOD is all I can say. It came to me and I thought.........naw, that sounds too corny. Then I said it a few times out loud and thought......this just might work. That was 4 years ago. It's juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust about a "BRAND" in the bass tournament fishing world.

Personally, I'd rather have focused traffic that I pay just about nothing for (except for the hosting fees I incur) and that starts coming in relatively quickly as opposed to spending hours and hours and hours trying to establish roots and a postiton in someone's mind.



Classic discussion!!!

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Old 17th August 2007, 08:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mktgbiz View Post
Well……I still gotta stick with my guns. Looking at the examples you listed:
Ebay
Yahoo
Aol
YouTube
Expedia
etc etc…

..they all had one thing going for them in my opinion. They were FIRST in some category or they created a category.
Nope, they weren't first.

Ebay... not the first online auction.

Yahoo... definely not the first search engine or directory. And, a late comer to the game (google) is giving them serious headaches.

AOL... not the first BBS, ISP, etc.

YouTube... not the first online source of uploaded media.

Expedia... not the first travel booking site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mktgbiz View Post
My next question is, how does Joe Blough create that catchy name? How does he/she create that cool, memorable, unique "brand name" that will live on for decades?

How do they do that when their business is selling airline tickets? Fixing people's toilets? Their business isn't creativity.
Coming up with the name is the easy part. Just make something up. It's the meaning that you pour into that name as you create the brand that takes the work.

Although they may have put some time into choosing their names, I seriously doubt the following sites had to hire someone to come up with these names:

fark.com
johnchow.com
shoemoney.com
craigslist.org
crimsonfox.com.au - He explains in this thread how he came up with the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mktgbiz View Post
And I’ve never heard of woot.com and boingboing.com……..and if they came up in a result somehow, I’d be kinda hesitant to click on them for the simple reason………I’ve never heard of them.
But their target audience has heard of them and remembers their name and that's the key. Branding for small businesses is not about being Coca Cola and trying to get everyone on the planet to know your name. It's about tightly focusing on your target audience and making sure they know who you are.

Here is another example: Mattress Mack and Gallery Furniture. You've probably never heard of those names either. But, his target audience, Houston area furniture buyers have. He's focused on one audience with a focused message and made himself what is likely the strongest local brand of the Houston area. And, he's made Gallery Furniture, which people outside of Houston have probably never heard of, the most successful single store furniture seller in the USA with yearly sales of $150 million dollars. That's one store generating $150 million dollars in furniture sales a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mktgbiz View Post
I'd rather have focused traffic that I pay just about nothing for (except for the hosting fees I incur) and that starts coming in relatively quickly as opposed to spending hours and hours and hours trying to establish roots and a postiton in someone's mind.
And if a major algorithm change or a mistake occurs and your site disappears from the rankings, you are sunk. I can't even count the number of times I've seen people complaining that has happened to them.

On the other hand, fark.com could disappear from the rankings and it wouldn't have such a negative impact. I've never searched for fark.com and I first visited it because one of their regulars told me about it. Same with craigslist.org, mybloglog.com, etc. I don't need a search engine to find them.

Branding isn't just for huge corporations and I think small businesses that don't work on branding with their target audience are making a big mistake.

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Old 19th August 2007, 05:31 AM   #18
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Hello

That is good discussion. What I want to know whether domain names with 2 words or 3 words, does it make any difference in terms or keywords and rankings?

Some people says 2 words domain are better but it is impossible to get those...
and so I go look for 3 words domain. Is it true?

Steve

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Old 19th August 2007, 08:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamup View Post
Hello

That is good discussion. What I want to know whether domain names with 2 words or 3 words, does it make any difference in terms or keywords and rankings?

Some people says 2 words domain are better but it is impossible to get those...
and so I go look for 3 words domain. Is it true?

Steve

The fewer the better.

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Old 30th August 2007, 04:48 PM   #20
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How big difference does it make to register a domain name with ".biz" and ".com" make?

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